[LAUIL602] Task 7: Student Symposium - Working with Illustrators with Sophia Watts and Arthur Carey

Notes from Symposium: 

• We spend so much time in art school isolated on briefs that we forget that there is another real life experience that takes place with an art director

• Sophia Watts is a Junior Designer at Penguin Random House in the children's section of mainly Puffin books, YA and classics hiring illustrators for book covers and interiors.

• Arthur Carey graduated from Leeds Arts University in 2012 and now co-directs a graphic design studio called Polytechnic, which began in 2018, working across art direction, creative strategy, branding, print and websites, and aims to bring illustration into projects as much as possible.

• Matt notes that one of the interesting things about both Penguin and Polytechnic is that both are distinct in the work that is being done. As designers they both have different intentions but commissioning illustrators them you together.

• Arthur finds the first hurdle is talking to the client about the idea of illustration and presenting them with catalogues and books, rather using photography. Keeps links to LAU open. Georgia, the other co-director, studied at the RCA and keeps her link open to them. Maintains a closeness to practicing illustrators who are recently graduated. Talking with illustrators Polytechnic have worked with before allows them to find new illustrators to work with.

• Sophia tends to find illustrators through Instagram and Pinterest. She saves a list of people whose work she likes which gets whittled down per project. Still uses the same Pinterest account from uni where she learned to categorise in certain ways by colour and character.

• Arthur suggests Evernote but there is a risk of over-categorising and taking the joy out of what you do.

• Sophia believes it's important to be honest when communicating. Some deadlines can be very quick so a main question becomes "can you achieve this deadline?" It's better to know for production reasons if a deadline can be achieved. It doesn't mean you aren't reliable if you can't achieve the deadline and it's best to say something sooner rather than later. In publishing, reputation is really important. They always want to work with fast workers and nice people again and again. They are happy to wait for the work and to receive a nice cover than rush it for a deadline and receive something not up to a standard as the portfolio.

• Sophie agrees that they have already chosen you and your work and you shouldn't be scared to make the deadline work for you. 

• From Arthur's perspective, he believes that a good project set up manages expectations between the client and the artist/photographer/web developer. The agency is ultimately facilitating communication between the artist and the client.

• Matt: Which platforms are preferred to communicate? Good habits or frustrations. What expectations are there from an artist/illustrator in terms of communication?

• Arthur facilitates visual updates, PDF and a phone call. They show the client the work when the time is right. A telephone call has become precious in the time of the video call.

• Sophia prefers speaking to people especially if they haven't met. Email is the usual form of communication and she has a very casual, chatty tone to put the illustrator at ease and to lower their barriers so they can feel more comfortable to raise concerns. Penguin works on stages: the rough stage and final artwork. Thursday mornings are covers meetings which everyone sits in on. Feedback cannot be given at this time as it has to come from everyone including marketing and sales.

• Matt notes that there's a thing about reputation and proving your credentials as a freelance business-person such as if you are a gardener or architect. That isn't present for illustrators or designers. Decency and professional tone of voice become the reputation. Being open and formal is a necessary approach. Begin with a very professional tone of voice in your correspondence but build opportunities to get to know you is commissioning you. What is the typical flow of work?

• Sophia can potentially illustrate the cover herself when given a project from art director, consideration for illustration. Any opportunity she illustrates her own covers. They do their own roughs with sketches and type. Begins to look for people through a mood board and start discussion. Someone is selected who then does their own rough. If there's a set or series of books and a visual language has been established, there's no need to keep going back and forth between roughs and the set can keep going. If it's a standalone book, Sophia likes to have the conversation of creative control with the illustrator so they don't feel the need to follow her rough and her ideas. There's usually a general idea and a few different versions can be born from that. 

• Arthur's company tends to go for a very clear idea which they have been developing with the client, through small roughs, which is then taken to the illustrator. They provide the client with two options, the one they've Ben developing and the one that the illustrator has developed. Results in a small developmental stage for the illustrator as there are two options, of their own and one developed with the client, where one will be selected to work quickly. The illustrators idea becomes the "delightful surprise" option.

• Matt liked this approach that allows the illustrator to feel confident. Do you think an illustrator should give more than is asked in terms of roughing an idea stage if they feel it's appropriate?

• Sophia thinks that even if it isn't accepted, at least you've thrown some ideas out and she would like it if illustrators presented their ideas more openly more often. It opens more discussion and does some of the workload for her.

• Arthur agrees that it's showing some of your workings and can become a very useful tool for the client. His agency will decide whether it's useful or not. As long as it part of the agreement then showing as much of the process is useful. It gives a sense of who you are. 

• Matt points out that an illustrator may seem at the bottom of the hierarchy but have been commissioned and as long as there is some scope in the brief can allow to push and pull. 

• Sophie: Is an in-house illustrator a viable career option in publishing and editorial? How would you suggest navigating that role? Sophie visited a lot of studios last year where people said there weren't any in-house illustrators based there. It was a recurring theme of non-existence.

• Sophia has made it possible within her role as she likes to do illustration herself. Most of the people in her team have illustration backgrounds. When applying for the job, she knew very little about InDesign and learnt it on the job. It's a good mix of design and illustration. Her passion is for illustration, and not so much for design, but if she were to do illustrating all day it would drive her mad. If you work in a publishers and they know you have an interest and want to do in-house illustration, they will ask. It's easier for them as it's quicker for you to do it but it's only on occasion and not all of the time. We don't get credited incase we get poached by other publishing companies. 

• Matt can only think of places where the output is so very specific, as Penguin or children's books or a greetings card agency, as having in-house illustrators.  That idea of the illustrator as a contributor to the experience of how a book reads that credit leans into where it's activated. 

• Sometimes they've had to Sophia name on something if a different person has done the cover and I've done the chapter heads inside. As a side note if you are wanting to work in publishing, do black and white sketchy interiors. 

• Sophie: A question for Arthur - Is there a project with Polytechnic that adheres to your values as a studio?

• Some roughs from Kieran, in a project where illustration was given to a client. They were unsure at first but it was a great way to meet some of the objectives of their brief. In more of an applied sense they are gift cards for a bakery. Illustration on banners in the space. Postcards of different seasons of the year. The whole context of the project was to do content packaging, branding, typography. It made it so much more rich to bring in illustration. One of my favourite projects that was brilliantly received in the space and in rural Norfolk where the bakery is. It was a nice product arc because we went into it not sure how to implement illustration but we managed it. 

Roughs that were shown to the client

Stamps to represent the seasons. Minimal, concise and lots of colour to easily be read.

• Matt agrees it is a beautiful project elevated by an understanding of what Kieran was doing in his practice. You have to have faith in your work as an artist and the experience of designers seeing your and its potential is rewarding. The application needs a collaborator to activate it. Collaboration more broadly, in what way is collaboration a part of what you do. What can be gained from collaborating?

• Arthur reflects that collaboration becomes harder when you are no longer in art school. Polytechnic always try to reserve space to let collaboration with friends happen. Always continue to see the benefits of collaboration. A collaborative example is working with a paper craft illustrator, Hattie. She is very considerate of how she presents and shoots her work. She collaborated every time she makes an image with different still life photographers. It's as much about the photographer as it is about her craft. Something I took note of in her practice and the importance of it. 

• Matt states that important to understand how you work as an artist/illustrator but also how you can elevate your practice through collaboration.

• Sophia misses the collaboration opportunities that university can present. Now she only works with editors and marketing people and illustrators. Working with illustrators is the most fun experience for her personally and as part of her role. She recognised Keiran's work with Polytechnic/Arthur who was part of her university class. 

• Arthur mentions that he talks with clients, long before external collaborators, highlighting that they are collaborating with others to make work. Talking about it in those terms allows for them to respect what others are bringing to the collaboration to push an idea. It is talked about as collaboration even though it's a commercial relationship.

• Matt agrees that collaboration forges connections and everyone wins. Artists are often in their own silos externalising their work and it's isolated.

• Sophie asks about portfolios and what makes one stand out. Any particular moments of one being a goldmine and what made it that way?

• Sophia saw most of the portfolios when she was back in the office, pre-covid times, and agents would bring them in. Oftentimes it was one particular piece of work that stood out rather than a whole portfolio of work and she would make note. Sophia is looking for things that are needed a lot like characters and book covers. Kid friendly characters. If she likes people she keeps note of that too. Sophia likes seeing sketches and black and white images which are handy for middle grade.

• Arthur at Polytechnic sees a lot more graphic design portfolios but it's relevant to say that the ones that stand out are the ones where someone's personality is coming through. I always see name, where they studied, a blurb and three projects but sometimes those elects aren't needed if it's rich enough with the work. Instagram is good for seeing the work in progress. Some of the things that people think aren't interesting or useful are the ingredients for us. 

• Question: how did you both get started in the jobs you have now? Did you need any experience?

• Sophia did a competition when she was at uni for the Stratford Literary Festival to design their book cover and part of the prize was a week's placement at one of the Penguin offices. Had that placement just after she graduated and had a great time with the people who worked there. They had an event where all people from publishing came. She chatted to people, networking, and people gave their advice. There was a job going in the children's book section and it was suggested I apply for it. It helped to meet the people on my placement who I used as a reference. It's good to meet as many people as you can and talk to as many people as possible and seem interested. If you are enthusiastic, other people like helping people. It's good to enter competitions as they'll have briefs that you may have to do later on. It's good experience. Join networking events. 

• When Arthur was graduating he went to the D&AD shows with the graphic design course and had received a business card. He gathered all of the correspondence from over the final year of his course, graphic design agencies, who weren't offering him work but crammed them into the same week so his schedule was busy. This gave the illusion that he was busy and in demand. He couldn't do an internship as he was offered some work first.

• Sophia had a similar thing happen where all of her interviews were on the same day so she could mention rooks she was meeting with. Provides a way in.

• Matt mentions that having a hunger and self assured approach to solving a problem. People are looking for that quality of work, especially in graduates. You are an asset and of extreme value to the design industry.

• Sophie: what are your thoughts on living in London and the costs?

• Sophia originally thought she would be moving back to Leeds after graduating as she enjoyed it but then ended up getting a job in London with her flat mate. She loves living in London. There's so much to do and there's always a lot of things happening. Sophia likes London and stayed even during Covid when many people went back home but stresses it isn't important as a freelance illustrator.

• Arthur thinks it's good to come to london if there's an event where there are lots of people pooling together but has friends in the creative industries all over the uk. There are events happening all over the UK, it doesn't have to be London that you come to. 

• Moving can push you and help you to grow too

• Question: how did you balance finishing third year and thinking ahead?

• Arthur had a lot of anxiety that he wasn't doing enough to be thinking outwardly but it ended up that because he'd bundled everything up into the week of meetings, it worked well as the focus shifted to that week and the work that would be presented. He's glad he wasn't preparing for that too soon. When meeting and sharing ideas and stories, the shift can of looking outwards from your portfolio can happen so quickly.

• Sophia found it very daunting and scary in her third year and didn't look for jobs until she had the placement. Don't rush anything. You've just done a huge degree. Have a break and then decide what you want to do. She didn't know that she wanted to work in publishing until she had the placement, enjoyed it, and there was an open job towards the end that she applied for with references from the job. 

• Matt stresses the importance of taking breaks, reflecting often, but realising that people have access to different privileges. Options may be limited but there will be opportunities in every journey. As long as you are still making and learning, opportunities will arise. Self assurance and hunger. Getting a non-creative part-time job works for so many people. A part-time creative for a fuller life is important for the practice.

• A question of Covid and how it has affected working.

• Sophia hasn't been into the office and currently works from her kitchen. She shares with housemates who are happy to work from their bedrooms.

• Arthur was working last year during the pandemic from the spare room at home. They have recently moved into a new studio space with 4 desks which will be occupied by freelancers and designers when it's safe to do so. No longer seem to have phone calls anymore, only zooms. The saddest thing is not being able to celebrate a project. It's just looking back over emails and signing off. There's no winding down and relaxing. He hopes to offer one of the desks as a residency to the illustration course, if Covid restrictions lift and allow.

300 Reflective Summary

There were a lot of important points raised in this discussion which I found very poignant and relevant to developing my emerging practice. The idea of decency, professionalism, and a professional tone of voice becoming the reputation struck with me as someone who is always trying to develop their communications with people and will be something I aim to improve after graduation. Collaboration used to always frighten me as I'm not much of a social person, but it isn't just the idea of two artists or illustrators coming together and working on a piece - it is honing social and communication skills, forging connections, meeting each other at a human level and finding opportunities within the context of working. I have never professionally networked at any kind of event or art fair or gallery, and tend to have feelings of shame about this because of being a mature student, but I do have networks that I have over the years through volunteering and campaigning that opportunities can exist within. Not needing to be in London for opportunities is reassuring. I often compare myself to a friend of mine who I did the Access to HE course with who went on to study and live in London. From the outside looking in, it does often feel like the place where everything is happening - when, equally, things are happening nationwide and locally. I will need to stay close to home in Manchester to look after my mum, who had a stroke in 2018

Not rushing the experience of graduation and the next steps felt prevalent and poignant. This is the confusing time, not knowing where I exist, and I don't want to rush into something I'm not ready for. The Master's feels like the logical next step to unpick more about my practice through a Fine Art lens. What can a painting be? What materials can be used to manipulate the paint across? I would like to work through some of the things Duncan mentioned when we talked in our meeting.

Privileges really stuck out to me as I realise that I am not a privileged person. I do not come from a privileged background, I will not receive some of the same opportunities that my peers do due my blindness and low income, and my near future is going to be challenging as a career. Reframing that into a positive of what opportunities could exist within that will be a challenge and something I need to work at to ensure I have an equal footing.